Talk:Whorfin Dax
Retconned? I don't think it's fair to say that this guy was retconned, this isn't a case of a screen being replaced with another screen during a remaster. We have him mentioned on screen, so he's canon even if that's not conventient. What we have here is merely a case, we have a number of them, of true information that we don't know how to reconcile because seemingly contradictory information was introduced later. In such cases it isn't up to us to decide what's true and false, but merely present the information and let the user draw their conclusions. -- Capricorn (talk) 22:57, October 29, 2016 (UTC) :According to MA:RESOURCE what is said takes precedence over what is seen. Maybe Bashir looked at the records out of order- but that doesn't matter; as you state, we should just present the information. I don't think we need to say it was 'retconned' unless a production source says that. 31dot (talk) 23:06, October 29, 2016 (UTC) ::Retconned might be the wrong term. However, there were explicit dialogue recountings of all the Dax symbionts without ever mentioning Whorfin. This certainly takes precedence over some background okudagram, as 31dot pointed out. So we shouldn't just treat this like Lela Dax or another confirmed host Kennelly (talk) 16:58, October 30, 2016 (UTC) :::Maybe he was a host in the same way Will Riker carried Odan - worth mentioning in a medical record but having little impact in the long run. --LauraCC (talk) 18:21, October 30, 2016 (UTC) Just because we are given two seemingly mutually exclusive facts doesn't mean it's up to us to decide what's canon and what' isn't. This isn't different from how for example how Bajorans suddenly lost their forehead makeup, or Vulcan suddenly gaining a moon. We just have to represent all the info, with as little assumptions as possible and with the necessary background notes to explain to confused readers what's going on, and then assume that within the universe there is some kind of explanation even if we have no idea what it might be. Laura's explanation works, as do no doubt a number of other highly speculative ideas, but that's besides the point. There's no hard reason to dismiss this info as non-canon. -- Capricorn (talk) 21:28, October 30, 2016 (UTC) ::Yes,there is, since dialogue trumps visual material. More extreme, if there was a viewscreen calling Riker's father "Benny" while in dialogue he was ofc Kyle Riker, would you argue for a "Benny Riker" page? Kennelly (talk) 21:48, October 30, 2016 (UTC) No I wouldn't have an article for him, no more then I would want one for James R. Kirk (you really missed a chance to use that famous goof :p) But dialog should only supplant visual material when we arrive at a perfect deadlock, typically that rule comes in play when no other way to choose one term over another can be found. It's both doable and perfectly ok to have an article that says something like "Dax described herself as having these nine official hosts, and in addition to those, there were Yedrin, Verad and Whorfin. (background note: we don't know how the latter one fits in)". The reader can draw their own conclusions. By the way, I'd like to hear 31dot explain their position a bit more, because I read his comment as mostly supporting my position while you seem to read it as mostly supporting yours. -- Capricorn (talk) 23:46, October 30, 2016 (UTC) :I apologize for not being clearer and will try to do so: I am thinking that this could be mentioned at Dax (symbiont) but doesn't merit a page on its own. As pointed out, we have a definitive list of all the Dax hosts mentioned a few times verbally(such as Ezri reciting them in ), while this person was briefly seen on a screen that's barely legible. Per policy what is said verbally takes precedence, though that doesn't mean we totally ignore this. 31dot (talk) 00:03, October 31, 2016 (UTC) But in Shadows and Symbols Ezri already skips one host, Verad. Clearly her giving a full list of hosts doesn't mean there's no room for other people, people that may not count to Ezri but are still real and might be of interest to her doctor. p.s. please don't apologize 31dot, I absolutely was not implying you fell short. -- Capricorn (talk) 00:32, October 31, 2016 (UTC) :I didn't think you thought that I fell short, just saying I could have said more. :) I don't think Verad was a "host" per se as Dax was put back into Jadzia before she died, even if Verad is technically a part of her. 31dot (talk) 11:49, October 31, 2016 (UTC) I think the point isn't if Verad counts as a host, the point is that he exists despite not being in any listings of hosts - and thus provides an example of someone not listed but still conceivably capable of appearing in medical files. We don't have to make great statements about the nature of Whorfin Dax, we can and should just narrowly say that he was a person that appeared in files pertaining to Jadzia. But there's no strong reason to assume he couldn't possibly have existed, and must therefore be retconned. -- Capricorn (talk) 20:43, October 31, 2016 (UTC) :::So you could alter the template some? Maybe make it a "Trill hosts" template, with a special line for each symbiont, with all hosts listed next to it, including Will Riker in Odan's line. Or figure out a way to show those ambiguous or unapproved hosts in bold, much as Yedrin has been italicized, due to his status as an alt timeline host. --LauraCC (talk) 20:51, October 31, 2016 (UTC) Dividing it in "main" and "other" might work. -- Capricorn (talk) 21:23, October 31, 2016 (UTC)